Darren Waller Talks “Who Knew” Video, Lil Wayne Co-Sign & The Similarities Between His Musical Career & Returning To The NFL Post-Suspension

“I was just shooting him shit that I would drop. This is a few years ago, and he was just like, ‘Keep going, keep going. It’s hard. Keep going. Keep going,’” Darren Waller recalls Lil Wayne telling him during a Zoom conversation with HotNewHipHop. In many ways, it feels like Lil Wayne helped plant a seed for Waller’s trajectory in music these days. Following a divorce and his retirement, he decided to fully commit to music without compromising his values or authenticity. His recent releases, including the viral single “Who Knew” and his recent two-pack, Mind Games: It’s All In Your Head, have shown the former tight end of the Raiders’ vulnerability as he delves into heartbreak, self-reflection, and staying true to himself. As it is with art, people’s visceral reactions often take to the fore. In his case, it was the same sports talk show pundits that either praised or criticized him during his time in the NFL that had just as much to say about his latest music video.

“I took that opportunity as a unique – extremely unique – way to express what I was going through, and I don’t even think people really understood, like, through the video that the song title was like, who knew her perspective,” Waller told HotNewHipHop about the “Who Knew” music video. “In the video, I was really her. You see what she posted, like that she was devastated and whatnot, but it was me taking on that role and experiencing the pain of the females in relationships that I had been in my whole life. I don’t even think people understood that but it wasn’t even put out for me to even be understood.”

In this in-depth conversation with Darren Waller, he touched on how his musical career parallels his return to the league after his year-long suspension, his spiritual journey, and his top 5 rappers dead or alive.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity. 

Darren Waller: Yeah, man, it’s just authentic music. Sh*t that I’m really experiencing, sh*t that I’m really feeling, from the “Who Knew” record to “Mind Games” and “All In Your Head.” Like, it’s all stuff that I’ve experienced in my life, and just, such a wealth of different experiences in my life that I feel like is important to share with people. I just love different genres of music and styles of music so like, you’ll get bars from me at some point, you will get R&B at some point. Everything that I’m experiencing and walking through mentally and physically is what I’m trying to put into music.

It was like a cumulative decision. This decision was fully made later on, like, right around when I announced it but you know, it was just a constant weighing process. I feel like when the season ended, I was leaning more towards retiring but not the whole way and just like trying to stay in that balanced perspective of “a lot alright, like, what do I want to do here?” Like, let’s just weigh the pros and the cons. I never really fully leaned much more away from retiring. That’s how I knew, like, okay, like this is the decision that’s for me because if I’m going back, I don’t think I’m going back for me. So that was enough for me to decide.

Coming from Georgia, who were rappers that inspired and influenced you during your formative years?

Man, it’s all over the place. My dad’s from New York, so it was a lot of Mos Def, Gang Starr, Wu-Tang Clan – Ol’ Dirty Bastard, like a lot of New York. Mobb Deep. The Infamous  Mobb Deep was one of my favorite CDs. I actually stole that from my dad and took it to my car. I love Ludacris, Jay-Z. Those were some of the ones I started to come across myself. Kanye, those are probably the main ones. And then when I hit middle school, freshman year of high school, it was a big Gucci Mane phase. Like, listening to nothing but Gucci being in Atlanta. And that’s the time when I started getting active in the sh*t that I was doing. But yeah, a mixture of all of those, so that’s why I feel like my sound is all over the place.

In what ways does music fulfill you in the way that football didn’t at that point in your career?

Football was very, you know serious. There are a lot of fun moments, but you know, business is business, man. We need those bottom lines, we need you to produce, so there’s a lot of pressure in that. A lot of exhaustion, and a lot of ups and downs that I’ve seen in the game. Music was, you know, it was just what I found myself doing when I didn’t feel pressure to do anything else or it didn’t feel like I should be doing anything else. It was just like, music was something that I naturally gravitated towards, and got that child-like joy out of and I’m just like, fucking giggling and cackling when I’m putting the beat together and ideas coming together, or I hear how a song is coming together. You put a harmony on something that you weren’t even expecting to come out of your own body. It’s just like, that level of joy. Nobody’s got to force me, there’s doesn’t got to be any pressure on me. I’m gonna make music and have a good time and smile, regardless of what’s going on. And that’s kind of what it is for me.

Yeah, man, that’s a great question. I really see this time for me, musically, as the same exact time it was for me when I got reinstated into the league for my year-long suspension, and it was just like, I would have been a fool to expect that something great was going to come from that right away. Because I was just in a position where nobody was really going to trust me. If I was lucky, I get back to the Ravens, maybe be on the practice squad, stuff like that. So it was just more so me being in the space of, like, “Alright, ain’t no one checking for me. I feel like there’s still a future for me in this, I feel like God has pushed me back into this.” So I’m gonna just work on my craft and get better and get better and get better. The rate at which I got better at my craft, allowed me to take advantage of the first opportunity given to me and, and go from there.

But you know, I’m seeing as the same way. It’s just like, you know, we back to grind mode, man. Oh, man. Get better at your craft, don’t worry about what the future holds, or what people are thinking but just continue to try to make quality sh*t that is authentic, that’s real, that people can relate to and they sit down and tap in. The results, we leave up to God, man. Just enjoy the ride.

You described “Who Knew” as taking a risk because you had to show your vulnerability after your divorce but more importantly, the self-reflection that followed. How would you describe the pressure you face when releasing something as personal compared to the pressure you face on the field?

It’s similar, bruh. Because in a football situation, there’s been ups and downs in my career. There have been times in my career where I could do no wrong, bruh. I was like Jesus walking on water with the way that I was playing. Then there are times when people are like, “What the f*ck?” like, you can’t catch a break, and people are on your neck on the internet. And at the end of the day, if you let either one really define you – at the end of the day, it’s all noise, man. It’s all external, so you got to be defined by what you think it is, man.

I took that opportunity as a unique – extremely unique – way to express what I was going through, and I don’t even think people really understood, like, through the video that the song title was like, “Who Knew (Her Perspective).” In the video, I was really her. You see what she posted, like that she was devastated and whatnot, but it was me taking on that role and experiencing the pain of the females in relationships that I had been in my whole life. I don’t even think people understood that but it wasn’t even put out for me to even be understood. I knew it might be misunderstood by putting it out.

You know, I committed not too long before that. I was like, “Okay, if I’m going to go this music route, I’m going to be authentic and really put sh*t out that is real and true to my life,” and that’s what I did. And I’m sure I’ve gotten cooked numerous times. I’m sure some people liked it, and that’s kind of how this thing goes. If you’re doing shit different, you’re gonna have people that are bold on each side, but I think that’s just the beauty of it, man. People are entitled to their own opinions.

Even as you enter music and leave the NFL, you’re still facing criticism from sports commentators for your work outside of football. Steven A. Smith and Shannon Sharpe, specifically, chimed in on the release of “Who Knew.” How do you respond to those critics? How do you take that criticism without feeling like it’s personal?

Well, one, I have a phone, it’s called a light phone, so I’m not even really on social media like that, or really searching the internet. I couldn’t even tell you what those dudes even said. Like I said, I’m sure there were plenty of people who were like, this dude is probably tweaking right now. So, I don’t really know what they said. But for me, one way of that is not even giving myself access to that noise. And then two, it’s like me being authentic – I feel like I spent a lot of my life trying to do things [to] get validation from people for the way that I was moving. But now it’s like, alright, that’s a move I chose to make. Some people could say that move was stupid. Some people could say it’s a beautiful way to encapsulate a chapter of a journey. You got to have thick skin and be willing to live with whatever comes with it. I’m sure they have their opinions. It’s not my first time with people having opinions about decisions that I may have made, and that’s okay. Because at the end of the day, I know putting “Who Knew” out, I didn’t mean any harm. I wasn’t trying to do anything to anybody. It was just me expressing what I was going through and what other people have to say about it is what they got to say about it, you know?

What’s your end goal with music? As an athlete in the NFL, there’s a goal each year to make it to the Super Bowl and win the Lombardi but it’s not as linear in music.

It’s funny you say that because I feel like my success in football came from me taking away the linear approach myself. The seasons where I was playing the best and doing all that, there was no thought of “I need this amount of stats, need this amount of yards, I need my team to go here.” It’s just one day at a time, as long as I continue to get better and hold myself to the standard of excellence in the way that I play, the way that I run my routes, and the way that I am as a teammate and a leader, I feel like things are gonna go well.

I try to carry that same stuff over to music because like you said, people’s definitions of success are different. For some people, it’s like platinums and number ones and all this. It’s like that’s not really why I’m doing this. Like I said, I’ll be cooking up until my fingers fall off. Even if I get 100 plays on Spotify, I’ll still keep doing this shit. It’s really about how do I grow and fully embody the sound that I want and the musical gifts that I have. Because it’s obviously been passed down from my great-grandfather, and there’s a journey, a spiritual journey in this for me, regardless of how it ends. So for me, it’s like if I continue to have the same approach that I did when I was playing football, I feel like lives are going to be impacted by what I have to say and the art that I create. And I feel like that right there is the ultimate success.

You released a quick two-pack recently, Mind Games: It’s All In Your Head. What’s the significance of that title?

I just had this random idea. I don’t even know what the f*ck I was doing. Ideas just come to me randomly but I was like, I feel like that’s the title, Mind Games: It’s All In Your Head. Because it is. You’ll play mind games with yourself and be stuck in your head when really like you’ll be questioning if people f*ck with you or like what you got going on and you’re just picking yourself apart when there are people out there that love what you got going on and love what you stand for. I feel like it’s just the play on just the mental aspect of things is a big thing for me and I know it’s a big thing for people so I feel like people can relate.

I’m sure you’re working on a full-length album. When could we expect something like that? 

I feel like there’s been a lot of stuff I’ve been working on this summer that I want to continue to drop in little quick-hitting fashions. They’re like two or three packs. But yeah, there’s definitely an album in store. Like, I’m a guy that grew up on projects and listened to full CDs. You didn’t really have a choice or like a music library on the streaming platforms so like I’m pro-project, for sure, so definitely that’s in the works.

Is there a title for it?

I don’t have a date for you but the name of the album will be I’m Not Even Who I Am Yet.

Who would you dream collaboration? Dead or alive.

Kendrick Lamar, man. I feel like just the level of… just everything that he embodies. I remember him coming up when his sh*t was on Live Mixtapes. He was really just like trying to make some shit shake and see where he is now and how he never really compromised his values, still moved the way that he wanted to move. That is just fucking inspiring to me. So Kendrick Lamar, I’ll say Jay-Z. If you want to go a different genre, I’m a big Coldplay fan. And there’s this band called Khruangbin that I really like. They be jammin’ they ass off. So I would say some of them.

You were part of that viral moment when Lil Wayne was asked to recall his lyrics from “Lollipop (Remix).” What did that moment of him not even being able to remember his lyrics tell you about the work ethic required for a career in music?

Oh yeah, I remember back then, just because I’ve been following his whole career, like I’m that old. I know he records at an insane rate. People were like, “Oh, he couldn’t remember the words.” I’m like, “No sh*t he can’t remember the words. He records a lot.” And I’m recording a lot now. Probably, this summer, I’ve probably recorded over 50 songs or something like that, which is probably not even anything compared to the rate he works at. I’ll go back to some songs like dang, I don’t even remember the words. So it just makes sense now ‘cause I actually have the experience of probably not the same volume of catalog and I’m like, okay, I have to sit down and listen to this again to remember the words. Of course this dude, recording at the rate that probably nobody ever has would forget songs. But yeah, that was a funny moment. I was like people making a big deal out of it but this dude is – he literally tells you how many songs he’s recording.

Do you still have a relationship with Lil Wayne? You previously collaborated with Euroz before but has Wayne given you any feedback on your music?

Yeah, man. He was very encouraging of me. I was just shooting him shit that I would drop. This is a few years ago, and he was just like, “Keep going, keep going. It’s hard. Keep going. Keep going.” Just to hear that, man, because it’s like, I’m not somebody that wants something from him just because I have access to him. The fact that I’ll share it with him and he’d respond and be like, “Hell yeah, keep your sh*t going.” It’s like, alright, man, like, yeah, Wayne said he f*ckin with me, like, I can hold on to that. If 999,000 People are like this n***a sucks, I could hold on to the days where Wayne was like, “Bro, keep going. You on the right track.”

Final question: where does Lil Wayne sit in your top 5 rappers dead or alive? And if not him, then who else is making that ranking? 

​Man, this is the ultimate setup question. I feel like these top rankings are all subjective and somebody’s gonna be cooked for whatever they say. Off of my world, in the world that I grew up in and the area that I grew up in and the impact that Wayne had on literally everybody that I was ever around, just in my world, he is easily in just the top three off of impact. Then, if you look at Young Thug. You look at all the people who are inspired by Young Thug – Young Thug says he’s inspired by Wayne. Just growing up in Atlanta in those times and, how many Atlanta artists [Young Thug] spawned. If you look at it from a stage of impact – like, I’m sure people can make all these different categories and criteria up to find a way to not put him in and that’s okay. But just in my world, I feel like he got to be top three.

Whether in the top 3 or top 5, who else is accompanying Lil Wayne?

I mean, Jay Z, for sure. Kanye’s definitely on my top five. I mean, my life was soundtracked when I was a kid with my CD player with The Black Album by Jay Z and Graduation by Kanye. Those two gotta be up there. Damn, there’s so many good rappers. Fuck, I hate this question. Kendrick Lamar, he up there. I mean, I remember listening to Nas Illmatic riding around with my pops. I got to put Nas in there, man.